Hola, Sneakers! Welcome to the pleasantly numbered Episode 555 of Sneaky Dragon – the podcast that brought the repetition that brought the repetition that brought the repetition…
This week: witless protection; heat treatment; the messy decade; phoning it in; spanking material; three befores; clerks works; opting for smaller; blood in an elevator; strange problems; the multiverse of post-traumatic stress; further down the nerdhole; air on a jet plane; Chimp Lincoln; hot Kris; hot box; hot nuts; faux-bias; actors cannot do stand-up; deflecting obsessions; everything is showbiz; don’t believe your hype; evolving jokes; a house is not a home reno; to err is David; even The Who sold out; the Highland fling; the same old song; Top 5 Sports Songs – Pt. 2; just the tip; we lost Ian; stretched analogies; weird career moment; don’t buy the nonsense; Question of the Week – Sneakers respond; hot man meetings; cold thoughts for Texas; a Canterbury fail; unpersuaded; a sidecast proposal; a letter from a cat; and, finally, hamburger head.
Top 5 Sports Songs – Pt. 2
- Prefab Sprout – “I Never Play Basketball Now” – Swoon, 1984 – 1:45:12
- No Fun – “Football” – Old, 1984 – 1:52:54
- The Intruders – (Love Is Like A) Baseball Game – Cowboys to Girls, 1968 – 1:58:56
- Jane Siberry – “Hockey” – Bound by the Beauty, 1989 – 2:04:21
- Morrissey – “Boxers” – Parlophone Records single b/w “Have-A-Go Merchant” and “Whatever Happens I Love You”, 1995 – 2:11:45
Question of the Week: Has there ever been a convincing stand-up performance on TV or in the movies?
Sub-question of the Week: What film do you think is a successful biopic?
Thanks for listening.
David mentioned an episode of Maniac Mansion with a great parody of Cape Fear. Well, here it is:
We also talked about an electronic football game from David’s past. Ian was fascinated:
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“Football” was an instrumental written by Chris Phillips, who was the lead guitarist in my first band B.B. Blacksheep and later did a lot of recording with me as The Turkeys and The Pandas, which later morphed into NO FUN. It was the opening track on “NO FUN To Spare”, a 90 minute cassette album which was the source for most of our 2 vinyl E.P.’s in 1978 and 1979, as well as “Mindless Aggression” which was on the popular “Vancouver Complication” compilation album in 1979. Chris didn’t play on this rerecording of The Pandas’ song “Football”, but as on the original recording I had the idea to use my football game as a vocal track. The way the game worked was, the plays for the offence were printed on one side of the disc, which would be handed to your opponent to select a defensive scheme which was one of several printed on the reverse side of the disc, with the offensive play kept hidden from your opponent. The disc would be inserted into the player with the selected defence at the top of the player, you’d press the disc straight down, and you’d hear the announcer’s voice call the play. If you selected a good defence for the selected offensive play, you’d hear the announcer say that the play was stopped, but if the defence was not well chosen the announcer would call a successful result for the offence. The final “Touchdown!” call in the song was the best possible offensive result. If you look closely at the disc on the ad for the game, you can see the black-on-black embossed printing on the little black discs. I still have the discs and the red player box, but don’t tell Dave because I would like to blow his mind with it next time I see him.
My favourite biopic is not really a biopic, but Bob Fosse’s semi-autobiographical movie “All That Jazz.” He had a heart attack while directing the stage musical “Chicago” and editing the film “Lenny.” In the movie, Roy Scheider’s character Joe Gideon has a heart attack while directing a stage musical called “NY/LA” and struggling to edit a movie called “The Stand-Up.” Cliff Gorman plays the actor who plays the stand-up. In the movie-within-the-movie, he performs a monologue about the five stages of grief. Gorman does a very convincing job of playing a Lenny Bruce-type comedian. And no wonder. He won a Tony for playing Lenny Bruce in the play that Fosse’s movie “Lenny” was based on.
But Gorman was passed over for the movie in favor of Dustin Hoffman. The name of the fictional actor in “All That Jazz” is Davis Newman. You see Newman later in the film visiting Gideon in the hospital saying things like, “I’ve got insight into you. You know what’s underneath? The dreadful fear that you’re ordinary, not special.” It makes you wonder if Hoffman said something like that to Fosse, but perhaps Fosse is just talking to himself here. Other fictional characters have counterparts in Fosse’s real life. A Michael Bennett (“A Chorus Line”)-type rival director played by John Lithgow. A Stephen Schwartz (“Pippin”)-type composer. A Gwen Verdon-like ex-wife. An Ann Reinking-like current girlfriend…played by Ann Reinking. There’s tons of biting satire and brutal inside baseball about theatre and show business. And a lot of reflection on creativity and mortality. The choreography and editing of the musical numbers is amazing. It’s a glimpse into the mind of the director unfettered by facts which makes it more entertaining to me than a traditional biopic.
Loved the sports songs top 5, all of which were new to me. I’m sorry for forgetting that Dave had already covered this topic, but what was I supposed to do? Check? Let’s just think of it as a double entry. 🙂
Oh F…. !! Holly mother cow !!!
I this the 555th episode ??!!?
Is it ?
Reallllyy?
Shiiiiii…. !
And I didn’t prepare anything and I still haven’t found what i’m…. errr… finished listening to it.
😭😭😭
“High five, low five! Down low, too slow!”
Ayway, High Five for every one !
Regis
See 5 letters, and I bet you didn’t know that if you properly add the proper numeric values of each letters you will get 555 !
I’m racking my sweaty brain for standup performances on film and all I remember is how incredibly somber “Punchline” was when I saw it in the theater. I thought I was getting a funny Tom Hanks film. It shed a light on how competitive the comedy business can be, something that I didn’t realize just by watching the funny side of it. I haven’t seen “Punchline” in years, I only remember how it made me feel. Was it convincing? Maybe, if “Punchline” was in fact an accurate depiction of how dark the world of standup comedy can be.
Jim Carrey was just as brilliant performing the standup comedy of Andy Kaufman in “Man on the Moon” way back in 1999. I appreciated seeing that film because I grew up watching Kaufman when he was doing all that crazy shit in the 70’s and 80’s, so that was very convincing because I’d lived through it all. One of the screenwriters of “Man on the Moon”, Scott Alexander, is a Facebook friend of mine through the Marx Brothers pages. Scott and his writing partner Larry Karaszewski have had a successful career writing biopics, a few come to mind: “Ed Wood”, “The People vs. Larry Flynt” and “Dolemite Is My Name”.
I’ll use this as a segway into the biopic question by mentioning that Scott and Larry are currently working on writing a Martin Scorsese biopic about Jerry Garcia with Jonah Hill in the role of Garcia. I know nothing about The Grateful Dead, so I think I’ll enjoy seeing this film when it’s released.
Full transparency, two weeks ago when you guys were discussing the movie “Elvis”, I literally stopped the podcast, bought a ticket online and went straight to the theater to see it. You two sold me on the film immediately. I don’t know all that much about Elvis Presley but my Mom was a huge fan, so I do know his music. I’ll admit that film resonated in my mind for a good two days, I found myself looking up stuff about Elvis out of curiosity that the film had generated in my mind. I’m sure Austin Butler will be nominated for his role, maybe even win Best Actor, he was outstanding as Presley and did a great job convincing what a powerhouse performer Elvis was up until the end.
I really do love biopics, maybe for the same reasons I enjoy reading biographies. I teared up when I saw “Stan & Ollie” a few years back, I was astonished at Jeff Bridges’ role as Preston Tucker in “Tucker” but I think the biopic that wins me over most was Scorsese’s “The Aviator” with Leonardo DiCaprio as Howard Hughes. The icing on the cake was Cate Blanchett’s role as Katherine Hepburn which she won Best Actress…damn was she good.
I enjoy the performances, I really do, I can only imagine what an actor does to prepare for such an undertaking? Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison, Joaquin Phoenix as Johnny Cash or Tom Hanks as just about everyone else. Have you noticed that Hanks now makes a living by playing other people? Walt Disney, Fred Rogers, Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger, Captain Phillips, Colonel Tom Parker and now Geppetto…Hanks’ days as a toy cowboy and talking to volleyballs are in the distant past I guess.
I’ll finish out by mentioning one more biopic that moves me every time I see it, Robert Downey Jr. as “Chaplin.” It’s a very close second to “The Aviator” for me but it affects me differently and weighs on my heart as I watch the life of Charlie Chaplin. A complicated life for such a little tramp.
Okay Ian, send those freezies! I might just put them down my pants…hey wait, what is a freezie anyway? It sounds cold, so I’m all for it in this triple digit fuckery.
An enjoyable week to all my fellow Sneakers!
Fin
Hello, All–
Biopics that I love: Serpico, Raging Bull, and Ed Wood. However, I don’t know if I would call Ed Wood a successful biopic or just a hilarious take on Ed Wood and his movies. Much of the darker parts of his life are left out. Serpico is gritty and realistic. Raging Bull is highly stylized and often feels dreamlike, but I would bet that it gets Jake LaMotta’s life pretty right in terms of themes/lessons learned: the destructive nature of jealousy, the alienation of family members, and the self-loathing of compromising your principles.
When you mentioned portrayals of stand up comedy in movies, the first two films I though of were Scorcese’s The King of Comedy and Richard Pryor’s JoJo Dancer, Your Life is Calling. Robert DeNiro’s character Rupert Pupkin is fascinating, and when he finally gets on stage at the end to perform, his routine isn’t good–but it’s definitely better than you expect it to be. Not good, but not insanely bad, which is a shock. Have you guys seen that movie?
Pryor’s JoJo Dancer is a thinly veiled biopic of his own life. An autobiopic? With JoJo clearly meant to be Pryor. So I guess it’s cheating to say that Pryor’s/JoJo’s stand up comedy bits in the movie are very funny and seem real–It is Richard Pryor performing them.
Thanks again for your wonderful weekly podcast!
Oh yeah Billy, DeNiro and Martin Scorsese were killing it in the 80’s with “The King of Comedy” and “Raging Bull”, both are like a Master’s Class in film. I can remember how cringey it was watching the fat, washed-up LaMotta trying to do standup in his restaurant, then move forward only to watch Rupert Pupkin do the same in his basement. Scorsese and DeNiro brought those scenes to life flawlessly as we just watched nervously. THEN there was the scene in “Casino” too where DeNiro was trying to do that god awful TV show, juggling and carrying on like a bad host…making “bad” acting look good.
Ed–
And Casino is a biopic, too. DeNiro’s character is a real person, and Joe Pesci’s too. I’m sure most of the characters are/were real people.
I just thought it would be cool to tell you my oldest stepson is just south of you guys! He’s on an interview in Anecortes, Washington this week…
In case it comes up in his interview, let him know we locals pronounce the name of the body of water that separates BC and Washington State as the Strait of “WAN da FEW-ka” not “HWAN day FOO-ka” and certainly not “joo-ANN dee FUH-ka.”
Here he is, chipping in late again, hoping to slip under the wire, through the computer, over the desk, into Ian’s eyes and out of his mouth.
Biopics are tough to get right, partly because every life has such an obvious beginning, middle, and end that this structure can put the narrative on predictable rails to a bumper ending. For this reason I prefer ‘slice of life’ stories that focus on a brief period in a life and find the story within that period. ‘Warts and all’ productions seem to be more fun than hagiographies, so ‘Mommie Dearest’ is a firm favourite, as are ‘American Splendor’ and ‘I Tonya’. ‘Amadeus’ is also a fine film, perhaps because it is so relaxed about facts and focuses on spinning a beguiling yarn.
The most authentic feeling standup performance I can think of on film is from Jenny Slate in ‘Obvious Child’, which nails the atmosphere of a comedy club perfectly. I’d forgotten about her completely until she showed up as ‘Bignose’ in ‘Everything Everywhere All at once’, and now I see she’s about to win us all over with the aggressively charming ‘Marcel the Shell with Shoes on’.
I did mean to pick up on your chat from a couple of weeks back about Roosevelt’s glasses, and ian’s comment about how they are hard to draw, which everyone will have forgotten about by now: Nonetheless! I agree that glasses are tricky to draw – they’re even harder to carve, and despite everything odious about Mount Rushmore, Roosevelt’s specs are a masterclass in ‘less is more’ problem solving, with only the bridge and a hint of the lower lip sketched in.
Thanks David for another delightful song selection:
My favourite sports song might well be ‘The Manchester Football Double’, in which Lord Kitchener does the unheard of and celebrates *both* Manchester’s teams of City and United. As with so many calypsos, the subject matter is unique and the lyricism is witty, in this case using punditry cliches such as ‘City beat them convincingly’. In the same vein, Lord Beginner’s ‘Victory Test Match’ provides a full rundown of England/West Indies match at Lords in 1950.
Due in part to their nursery rhyme charm, Calypsos often get away with astonishingly brazen double entendres – perhaps this could inspire a future smutty song selection?
typo in paragraph 2: whole-life biopics have bummer, not ‘bumper’ endings.